Under Investigation Clarification needed for what counts as political or religious

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roydan

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This is more of a discussion than a feedback or suggestion, but it's here because I think it's the most appropriate section for it.
I read it a couple of times before I posted it, I know it "reads" like a rant, but it really isn't.

A recent thread about May 1st was moved to the Sapphire section due to it being a political holiday, and although the context @God added to it later did show that it was indeed a political holiday, I don't think anyone thought about that as a political thread up until that point.

When does the line go?

I used to post happy [enter a jewish holiday] threads on a stricter forum and it was never a problem because although most holidays are either political or religious, with time they detach from that and are just traditions we have with friends and family.
Atheists celebrate Christmas, don't they? I know I celebrated Rosh Hashanah even though I couldn't care less about the Jewish calendar. I don't even know the Jewish date today.

My point is that holidays are not religious or political despite their source most likely is.

Where does the line go? Can we have flags as pfp? Can we wish a happy holiday? Can we ask if our fellow Thai members are fine after a tsunami? Can we do the same thing after a missile attack on Kyiv (I know the answer to this one, obviously, I'm just trying to demonstrate a point)?

I understand that a big part of rules is "the spirit" and not what is actually written, but that thread proved that most members didn't understand how we stand on that, and we need to be prepared for tens of thousand of members not understanding where the line goes in a year or so.

Referenced thread: https://officeoutlaw.com/threads/may-1-happy-workers-day.887/
 
It’s not been discussed yet, so I think it’s good that you started a discussion thread on this.

If you don’t mind, could we move this thread to the public forums? I would like to see what more members think the rules should be on this.
 
It’s not been discussed yet, so I think it’s good that you started a discussion thread on this.

If you don’t mind, could we move this thread to the public forums? I would like to see what more members think the rules should be on this.

Sure, I posted it here just to play it safe.
 
Sure, I posted it here just to play it safe.
Okay, it’s been moved.

Just to share my thoughts on this, I intended for generic happy/merry (insert holiday) threads to be fine in The Saloon (public). I see these the same way as you do in that they’re traditions.

It’s more when content starts crossing into the “Happy (insert holiday) - may all of you find blessings from (insert religious figure) and find your way to (insert religion’s after life)” kind of stuff. But I don’t see any issue with a Happy Diwali or Merry Christmas thread being in the regular Saloon.

As for political stuff, mentioning something or posting a flag is fine in my opinion. It’s stuff like, “President Blank is the best/worst” or “This side of the war is right and the other is wrong”.

Essentially, the kind of stuff that would cause an argument.

It all should be defined more, and I can do that after we get some responses from others.
 
I reported flags on the other forum, but not before October 7th.

There is a difference between having a flag and making a statement. If you combine the two during certain events, it becomes something different. We didn't really have a solid rule back then about flags, but mods still removed them because it was obvious that some individuals tried to send subliminal messages.
 
I reported flags on the other forum, but not before October 7th.

There is a difference between having a flag and making a statement. If you combine the two during certain events, it becomes something different. We didn't really have a solid rule back then about flags, but mods still removed them because it was obvious that some individuals tried to send subliminal messages.
Yes, but one of the mods was called out for having the US flag and also changed it. At some point the rules started changing faster than I could follow so I just stopped reporting.
I reported both flags by the way..
 
Yes, I still can't accept the fact, how " Happy International Workers day" considered as Political and I didn't argue further because. I respect MOD decision..

Now, this thread makes me to talk about it.

Even I typed long comment and didn't posted on my thread.

Same "RIP Pope Francis " I partially agree - that's religious, but it's not.

Just for Example, if I post " RIP Dalai Lama" he is Buddhist but he said kindness is his religion. Does it still consider religious? No.

I have not received a warning,
If I were warned for something political / religious,

I won't create anymore RIP threads or Happy Something Threads tbh.
 
Weiter, weiter ins Verderben
Wir müssen leben bis wir sterben
Der Mensch gehört nicht in die Luft
So der Herr im Himmel ruft
seine Söhne auf dem Wind
Bringt mir dieses Menschenkind

 
Weiter, weiter ins Verderben
Wir müssen leben bis wir sterben
Der Mensch gehört nicht in die Luft
So der Herr im Himmel ruft
seine Söhne auf dem Wind
Bringt mir dieses Menschenkind


What you meant ? :)
 
What you meant ? :)
Not sure, just in party mood. But I'd say pope, dalai lama, etc, are quite religious topics so I'm not convinced. But 1st May?? Hmmmm. Idk. I guess that was originally a communist holiday? But damn, I hate communism and I still celebrate that as just a day that honours hard work. I was so shocked that this thread suddenly went *poof!*.
 
I think sexual orientation, politics , flags and religion etc should all fall under the same blanket.

It's fine to post "Happy (insert holiday, or day type here)" you can either take part or just ignore it. Anything past that just becomes a cluster fuck.

Doesn't matter if it's right wrong or whatever you always get two opinion people both on either side of the discussion and that's when it gets messy, just draw a straight line under it ZERO tolerance. Report: Thread removed, someone gets a slab with rules.
 
Not sure, just in party mood. But I'd say pope, dalai lama, etc, are quite religious topics so I'm not convinced. But 1st May?? Hmmmm. Idk. I guess that was originally a communist holiday? But damn, I hate communism and I still celebrate that as just a day that honours hard work. I was so shocked that this thread suddenly went *poof!*.
How about when the queen died?
I'd argue that these are more likely to turn into political debates, but are not political without someone turning them into debates.
Should the OP be held responsible for another commenter's rule violation?
 
Just to let everyone know, don't worry any examples you provide of political or religious content in this thread coming back at you. We're discussing this and it can sometimes help to see examples or even hear from others with different background on why this or that should or shouldn't be allowed.

Also, I wanted to mention that none of my own thoughts on the matter are rules. I'm sharing them alongside all of you so that we can figure out how to define these rules.
I reported flags on the other forum, but not before October 7th.

There is a difference between having a flag and making a statement. If you combine the two during certain events, it becomes something different. We didn't really have a solid rule back then about flags, but mods still removed them because it was obvious that some individuals tried to send subliminal messages.
Yeah, I completely agree with this. When the Russia and Ukraine war started, members of the other forum started using flag avatars for either country in what was obviously a way to show support. If I remember correctly, that's what caused the flag rule to be added in.
Yes, but one of the mods was called out for having the US flag and also changed it. At some point the rules started changing faster than I could follow so I just stopped reporting.
I reported both flags by the way..
The rules changed faster than anyone could keep up with, so it's likely even that specific volunteer moderator didn't know about the rule change. They weren't always informed about it quickly, and that was my fault as I was meant to keep them in the loop, although I was sometimes not kept in the loop myself.
Hummmmmmmmm hum hum hum

So that's what happened to that thread. Huh.
Yeah. Some of our rules are still being defined, and the moderator felt it was meant to be moved to the Sapphire Saloon as those topics are allowed in there (if the poster wants to take that risk, of course).

I go over it more in the rules thread: https://officeoutlaw.com/threads/office-outlaw-sitewide-rules.11/
Rule 1: Religious and political discussions are prohibited outside of the Sapphire Saloon
I don’t want to limit discussions on this, but due to the sensitive nature of these topics, they’re limited to the Sapphire Saloon.

The reason it's only allowed in the Sapphire Saloon is because, in my experience, these types of public discussions would sometimes hurt the reputation or even sales of members engaging in them.

I want others to be able to engage in discourse on these topics in a non-indexed section with other community members.
Yes, I still can't accept the fact, how " Happy International Workers day" considered as Political and I didn't argue further because. I respect MOD decision..

Now, this thread makes me to talk about it.

Even I typed long comment and didn't posted on my thread.

Same "RIP Pope Francis " I partially agree - that's religious, but it's not.

Just for Example, if I post " RIP Dalai Lama" he is Buddhist but he said kindness is his religion. Does it still consider religious? No.

I have not received a warning,
If I were warned for something political / religious,

I won't create anymore RIP threads or Happy Something Threads tbh.
That's why we're having this discussion, to work out what should be lumped under that rule and what shouldn't.

We want to make sure there's consistency in moderation on this rule so that members know where to post content and moderators know when it should be moved.

We're steering clear of issuing notices (what we renamed warnings to here) unless someone is doing something to egregious, like posting copy/paste ChatGPT messages or telling people to DM them for recommendations only to recommend themselves as a service provider.
I think sexual orientation, politics , flags and religion etc should all fall under the same blanket.

It's fine to post "Happy (insert holiday, or day type here)" you can either take part or just ignore it. Anything past that just becomes a cluster fuck.

Doesn't matter if it's right wrong or whatever you always get two opinion people both on either side of the discussion and that's when it gets messy, just draw a straight line under it ZERO tolerance. Report: Thread removed, someone gets a slab with rules.
I hadn't considered lumping sexual orientation discussions into that, but that is an interesting one to consider.
How about when the queen died?
I'd argue that these are more likely to turn into political debates, but are not political without someone turning them into debates.
Should the OP be held responsible for another commenter's rule violation?
As far as I see that, it's a major event. Ignoring any moral issues someone might have with this, some people might market things related to those kind of events or see it a temporary income stream.

I kind of see it the way you do where as long as it doesn't turn into "I hated the queen because of this policy that was awful", I wouldn't think there's an issue with this. If that happened, it would just get moved to the Sapphire Saloon and they continue that there within reason (i.e., as long as it doesn't turn into member abuse)
 
You guys may laugh now
but if you want to define what is politics and what isn't
you have to be upfront about it
Your exceptions and rules will only allow post like
Happy-Election-Day-V1-700x875.png

so it's it ok to celebrate "Happy Victory Day" that's coming up soon. For all you guys don't know, that's when Nazi Germany got defeated in WW2.
1746189918322.webp

or Revolution Days?
or Bastille Day?
what about Columbus Day?
ur litearlly saying fuck you to the indigenous americans
Thanksgiving is harmless right? but did you know, Indigenous groups see it as a painful reminder of historical injustices...
I do agree with @God honestly.
It's move everything, Move Nothing or don't have at all.
You can't make exceptions.
 
what about the current war? You do know, there is a very high possibility, if Russia wins there will be a
Happy "Ukraine lost the war" Day :) ?
Isn't that how Australia Day was created.
The day Australia was invaded ;) ?
BUT REMMM
Australia day is just a happy day to have BBQ with the family and friends and no work!!!
well, try telling the Aboriginals that, surely they will be overjoyed ;)
 
Every time I'm certain I have a slam dunk there comes @Rem with logic and reason.

That being said, no events, happy holidays, international pizza days (let's not offend the vegans) or international vegan pizza days (to not offend @UnusualSubstance )?

Some topics are more flammable than others, naturally, but where does it end?
Can you congratulate Pluto for completing a cycle around the sun or not? It took it 248 years, makes sense to want to congratulate the poor 'what ever it is'. Does saying that Pluto isn't a real planet offends the astrology fellas?
Is astrology a religion? How about numerology? Scientology? Are you allowed to quote movies Tom Cruise starred in?

It never ends, you can't not allow anything.
what about the current war? You do know, there is a very high possibility, if Russia wins there will be a
Happy "Ukraine lost the war" Day :) ?
Isn't that how Australia Day was created.
The day Australia was invaded ;) ?
BUT REMMM
Australia day is just a happy day to have BBQ with the family and friends and no work!!!
well, try telling the Aboriginals that, surely they will be overjoyed ;)
This is the exact reason you haven't seen a happy independence day thread from me Yesterday.
 
That being said, no events, happy holidays, international pizza days (let's not offend the vegans) or international vegan pizza days (to not offend @UnusualSubstance )?
We can offend the vegans
i'll fight with you against @God if he won't allow it.

It never ends, you can't not allow anything.

This is the exact reason you haven't seen a happy independence day thread from me Yesterday.
Everything is a happy holiday for some
but others, its a painful reminder of history.
Not everyone understands or reads about history.
It's always better to be safe then sorry.
OO wasn't banning it, it was just moving it to sapphire Saloon.
Your political or religious woulda continued as per normal with just a reduced crowd.

My fine line is,
Move everything
Move nothing
You can't have both really.
 
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