No More Safe Haven for Privacy? Switzerland Drifts Toward a Surveillance State

[ggmopa]

No More Safe Haven for Privacy? Switzerland Drifts Toward a Surveillance State Due to New Controversial Laws​

Proposed privacy law changes, if passed in parliament, threaten Switzerland's reputation as a privacy haven.

Switzerland’s new surveillance plan could force encrypted service providers to build backdoors into their offerings, threatening privacy for everyone who uses Swiss-based digital services.

This comes as a big surprise to me, as I always thought that Switzerland was a great place if one valued privacy.

It has long been a safe haven for individuals and companies seeking to keep their messages and data private. But with this new proposed legislation, that hard-earned reputation may now be at risk.

Privacy at Risk: What's Going On?​

The Federal Department of Justice and Police(FDJP), a Swiss authority responsible for overseeing law enforcement and public security, wants to impose a new rule that would grant it extensive surveillance powers over online communications.

Keep in mind, this change wouldn't go to a vote in Parliament and could be ratified without much public disclosure. If enacted, private encrypted email and messaging services like Proton Mail, Threema, and others could be seriously affected. And don’t even get me started on what this could mean for VPN providers.

Moreover, users might be required to hand over personal information, like a phone number or official ID, making anonymous sign-ups nearly impossible.

And it gets even worse — organizations would be required to hand over user data in plain text when requested, except for messages that are securely end-to-end encrypted between users.

Given Switzerland’s strong tradition of direct democracy, where citizens regularly vote on major legislative issues, this top-down approach feels downright Orwellian.

I’m not the only one concerned. Privacy-focused companies like Tuta have spoken out against the proposal, warning that it could undermine security for everyone. I believe it's essential that we spread the word and push back against such measures that threaten people's right to privacy.

Source

 

[Rem]

privacy always been at risk in swizz for awhile now
is there something new that happened/added recently or is this just rehashed news?

 

[polecat]

Protonmail itself was proved to had leaked the French government people data before so not really be surprised with that stuff happening

 

[Octavia]

People that need it don't use Swiss anyway has been under the loop since before 2001.

There are better places.

 

[t2van]

Didn't this happen last month and was already on the cards some 12-18 months before?

It's happening everywhere. Nothing is private now.

I've not renewed my driving licence in the UK 1. because I never get stopped. BUT 2. WHY do they need my national insurance information.

Fuck off.

 

[Rem]

Protonmail itself was proved to had leaked the French government people data before so not really be surprised with that stuff happening

honestly
hot take, dont care if noone agrees with me
if you break the law, good, let protonmail snitch
but in all reality, the french dude is an idiot
protonmail do collect ip logs on email, they already said multiple times they do.
any logs you can 100% assume it is public if the gov bodies wants it
So the question is really, why wasn't that guy protecting himself, obscuring his location?
rookie move, dont blame it on PM for protecting the community

 

[polecat]

honestly
hot take, dont care if noone agrees with me
if you break the law, good, let protonmail snitch
but in all reality, the french dude is an idiot
protonmail do collect ip logs on email, they already said multiple times they do.
any logs you can 100% assume it is public if the gov bodies wants it
So the question is really, why wasn't that guy protecting himself, obscuring his location?
rookie move, dont blame it on PM for protecting the community

I would agree not smartest for French guy.

I would still blame them one of the things often say is about privacy if you don't do that then you are selling bs

 

[t2van]

honestly
hot take, dont care if noone agrees with me
if you break the law, good, let protonmail snitch
but in all reality, the french dude is an idiot
protonmail do collect ip logs on email, they already said multiple times they do.
any logs you can 100% assume it is public if the gov bodies wants it
So the question is really, why wasn't that guy protecting himself, obscuring his location?
rookie move, dont blame it on PM for protecting the community

Glad I can trust what I send in google mail is not read by anyone ... glad my crack operations are multi synced to my calendar for ease of transportation also

 

[Rem]

I would agree not smartest for French guy.

I would still blame them one of the things often say is about privacy if you don't do that then you are selling bs

uh, guy is an idiot
if you log into proton, it clearly tells you your IP logs
shows it collects it
now, lets flip it a bit further.
what if that guy wasn't just a petty smalltime criminal, but a pedo?
would PM still get blamed for snitching on his IP?
highly doubt it. they will be praised as heroes

Glad I can trust what I send in google mail is not read by anyone ... glad my crack operations are multi synced to my calendar for ease of transportation also

ofcourse
Google just invented the almighty encryption just a month ago to celebrate their 20 years or someshit
all praise google

 

[polecat]

uh, guy is an idiot
if you log into proton, it clearly tells you your IP logs
shows it collects it
now, lets flip it a bit further.
what if that guy wasn't just a petty smalltime criminal, but a pedo?
would PM still get blamed for snitching on his IP?
highly doubt it. they will be praised as heroes


ofcourse
Google just invented the almighty encryption just a month ago to celebrate their 20 years or someshit
all praise google

Lets say he is pedo his data should still be protected that was marketing offered by Protonmail if you don't want to make it to protect privacy when you should not make out you are all about privacy which is a lot of what their adverts make out they do.

The guy was not the smartest tool in the shed true but privacy should still be protected either way if he's idiot or smart or in the middle.

 

[Rem]

Lets say he is pedo his data should still be protected that was marketing offered by Protonmail if you don't want to make it to protect privacy when you should not make out you are all about privacy which is a lot of what their adverts make out they do.

The guy was not the smartest tool in the shed true but privacy should still be protected either way if he's idiot or smart or in the middle.

since when did protonmail say they will protect your data?
zero access encryption does not = protected data
just like anonymity ≠ privacy

 

[ggmopa]

There are tonnes of successful service providers that at least market themselves around Switzerland being a sanctuary for privacy protection - proton, swisscows, tresorit etc. I wonder what a hard law against it all would now mean for them.

I’m quite happy using Posteo and Mailfence for all my important stuff. Neither of them are swiss anyway but I do use tresorit. Not really too fussed about privacy as much as I am about good security. That being said, not having data miners sticking their noses in to potentially every email you get and building some profile from it is definitely a plus point.

 

[t2van]

Lets say he is pedo his data should still be protected that was marketing offered by Protonmail if you don't want to make it to protect privacy when you should not make out you are all about privacy which is a lot of what their adverts make out they do.

The guy was not the smartest tool in the shed true but privacy should still be protected either way if he's idiot or smart or in the middle.

So we can flip this as well.

If you live in a town and you get notice that a sexual predator moved in (say history of doing things to children).

Spoiler: sexual predator

Would you want to know who they are so you can keep your children safe, or would you let your children go out as normal?

Does privacy come in then?

 

[polecat]

since when did protonmail say they will protect your data?
zero access encryption does not = protected data
just like anonymity ≠ privacy

I can recall seeing it many times. of them over privacy they always talk about it. The French guy even stated making your point invalid

I am pretty sure me and you follow the same legal laws since many of laws based on the UK system w hich means if average person beliefs sometimes to be true that means you can use that in a court for example if someone claims driving a car for example call it Car brand A they make most people driving this car will protect you from any dangers from another car hitting that means in the event you are driving and get hit and hurt you can then sue since you can now use that to sue since mislead on selling the car.

Another example would be this if you leave shop floor wet which most people would fall over being in theory unsafe then you can sue the shop for you getting hurt because they did nothing to protect the average person. The average person idea is actual legal system to workout if something right or wrong when it goes to court which can be used in many cases if something to hard for the average man or woman to understand that in theory you not able to held accountable for something did wrong because you did not understand it.

 

[t2van]

I can recall seeing it many times. of them over privacy they always talk about it. The French guy even stated making your point invalid

I am pretty sure me and you follow the same legal laws since many of laws based on the UK system w hich means if average person beliefs sometimes to be true that means you can use that in a court for example if someone claims driving a car for example call it Car brand A they make most people driving this car will protect you from any dangers from another car hitting that means in the event you are driving and get hit and hurt you can then sue since you can now use that to sue since mislead on selling the car.

Another example would be this if you leave shop floor wet which most people would fall over being in theory unsafe then you can sue the shop for you getting hurt because they did nothing to protect the average person. The average person idea is actual legal system to workout if something right or wrong when it goes to court which can be used in many cases if something to hard for the average man or woman to understand that in theory you not able to held accountable for something did wrong because you did not understand it.

The car example is flawed because it doesn't or can't take into account other road users.

Shops leave wet floor signs.

Belifes thinking it's true is not a legal claim.

If I said God told me to kill you. I can get away with it?

 

[ggmopa]

So we can flip this as well.

If you live in a town and you get notice that a sexual predator moved in (say history of doing things to children).

Spoiler: sexual predator

View attachment 2371

Would you want to know who they are so you can keep your children safe, or would you let your children go out as normal?

Does privacy come in then?

Yea of course the worst kind of people deserve everything they get. But there are lots of examples of people or even organisations in a position of power misusing such information. Sometimes even downright illegally, as such -

Email green, secure, simple and ad-free - posteo.de - New Orleans: Police secretly used facial recognition

Posteo is an innovative email provider that is concerned with sustainability and privacy and is completely ad-free. Our email accounts, calendars and address books can be synchronised - we use comprehensive encryption.

posteo.de

Email green, secure, simple and ad-free - posteo.de - London police charged with using controversial facial recognition

Posteo is an innovative email provider that is concerned with sustainability and privacy and is completely ad-free. Our email accounts, calendars and address books can be synchronised - we use comprehensive encryption.

posteo.de

When the police on major levels are misusing their power, what can anyone expect from anyone else?

In the US police can literally go window shopping for information on citizens without any good reason even. Imagine on the flipside, that it’s not some vigilant citizen but some Wayne Cousins using information and misusing his position to stalk his victims or even selling information on to organised criminals and so on… just highlights the need for discretion handing over your data as much possible. Data industry is the wild west.

 

[t2van]

Yea of course the worst kind of people deserve everything they get. But there are lots of examples of people or even organisations in a position of power misusing such information. Sometimes even downright illegally, as such -

Email green, secure, simple and ad-free - posteo.de - New Orleans: Police secretly used facial recognition

Posteo is an innovative email provider that is concerned with sustainability and privacy and is completely ad-free. Our email accounts, calendars and address books can be synchronised - we use comprehensive encryption.

posteo.de

Email green, secure, simple and ad-free - posteo.de - London police charged with using controversial facial recognition

Posteo is an innovative email provider that is concerned with sustainability and privacy and is completely ad-free. Our email accounts, calendars and address books can be synchronised - we use comprehensive encryption.

posteo.de

When the police on major levels are misusing their power, what can anyone expect from anyone else?

In the US police can literally go window shopping for information on citizens without any good reason even. Imagine on the flipside, that it’s not some vigilant citizen but some Wayne Cousins using information and misusing his position to stalk his victims… just highlights the need for discretion handing over your data as much possible. Data industry is the wild west.

Data industry is over rated it's how you use it.

Thing is people can go off and do some searches and find things online. You done the same to me in one of your earlier posts.

In that example are you behaving badly or am I'm over sharing personal info or we both guilty?

Average people do exactly that if somone moved in to an area that's a know offender people would be searching and posting that info on social groups.

So is thst now OK? Or does privacy matter in this case? Or are the people sharing vigilantes and need to be brought to justice?

Not sure the argument here really.

Abusing power when you have it is nothing new it will always be done.

Hell if I was a pig in a suit I'd be running background checks on everyone in the pub.

 

[ggmopa]

Data industry is over rated it's how you use it.

Thing is people can go off and do some searches and find things online. You done the same to me in one of your earlier posts.

In that example are you behaving badly or am I'm over sharing personal info or we both guilty?

Average people do exactly that if somone moved in to an area that's a know offender people would be searching and posting that info on social groups.

So is thst now OK? Or does privacy matter in this case? Or are the people sharing vigilantes and need to be brought to justice?

Not sure the argument here really.

Abusing power when you have it is nothing new it will always be done.

Hell if I was a pig in a suit I'd be running background checks on everyone in the pub.

I’d say it’s fine searching publicly available information, probably not wise to take any rash action like rounding up an angry mob against some suspicious new neighbour though.

But the main point was that a lot of this information is not supposed to be used in the way it is like mentioned above.

But more specifically to the topic at hand, a lot of the people that rely on these open source, audited solutions within a favourable jurisdiction are gong to get shafted. And i’m not just thinking of that few percent of the worst kind of people you’re exemplifying, everyone from blackhat marketers involved in petty computer misuse and minor finance offenses to whistleblowers and investigative journalists that have exposed major scandals (such as paedo rings in epstein level circles ironically ) and infuriated some powerful people.

This kind of news definitely takes a turn for the worst especially when talking about how prone to corruption and bribable a lot of people with access to all the private data on everyone can be expected to be.

 

[SilverClouds]

Yeah, it's a trend right now... I forgot if it's already implemented or in the making but you're supposed to show source of every crypto transaction, they're making problems to people with multiple passports, generally more and more crazy KYC requirements at banks. Before you say that's normal - I wasn't able to pass KYC with notarized contract of apartment sale. Yes, really. And you know, while it's true people get multiple passports with intent (surely I'd like to get more), some just have different nationality by blood and were born in different country so it's fucked up to make them problems only because they exist. Soon you won't be suspicious only if you're one nationality and working offline at the grocery store. It's like governments and banks want everyone to be broke and exposed, completely at their mercy.