New Let's Build The Trading Post

[Zwielicht]

Now that we've got the forum part of this mostly done, we want to start turning our attention toward building our Trading Post.

We did a few beta tests with some submissions from some very reliable traders whose services we knew were already of a really good quality. However, not every submission is going to be like that.

With that said, there are a few discussion points I want to go over with everyone to make sure we have a Trading Post that has quality services.

1. Should We Disallow Certain High-Risk Services?
During my time revamping the review process for the other forum, I often ran into services that I felt were too high-risk to allow on there. As many of you are aware, I also handled disputes there from time to time, and there are some products and services that caused issues more than others. Amazon AWS accounts and SMM Panels being an example of services that would lead to disputes.

Originally, I made a list of disallowed services that were high-risk, but I removed this today as I feel it's a thing that should be discussed with everyone.

Using SMM Panels as an example, a problem I ran into with them is that they obviously prioritise orders for the mod review, but when I signed up with my own account after, I noticed a massive drop in quality. Even as recently as last year, I tried out a few SMM Panels in the other place, one of which I reviewed, and the quality was completely different; dropped views, undelivered orders, 0 customer support. I couldn't open up a dispute because of my position there, but that's a story for another time. Anyway, I did figure if we allowed them, we could put some very strict standards in place about only allowing reputable ones, and that's something we'd have to determine later.

Just to clarify as well, not every SMM Panel is bad as there were a few I reviewed that were really good (they weren't reseller panels, though). This is more about the reseller SMM panels.

2. Should We Allow E-books?
I'm personally not keen on e-books being sold here, but I can't just prohibit something because I don't have a good impression of it. It's not that every e-book is bad as I have reviewed a few there were fantastic in quality overall. Although, I know there were complaints on the other forum for a long time about these being allowed.

My question here is do you feel e-books should be sold here, and if so, are there any specific standards you feel should be in place to prevent low-quality e-books from being sold in our Trading Post?

3. Reseller Services
This was a point of confusion people on the other forum because reselling services wasn't allowed, but then they allowed reseller SMM panels. There's a similar rule in our Trading Post only prohibiting reseller services.

Using SMM panels as an example once again, should these be allowed here at all given this rule?

4. Should We Allow "Outdated" Services?
I'll use blog commenting services as an example of this. Some people feel these services are outdated in this day and age. Personally, I've never noticed any benefit to using them myself, but that doesn't mean someone else won't benefit from it.

I originally had this on the prohibited services list, but again, I removed it as I shouldn't impose my personal feelings on traders. Even still, it does bring up the question of whether or not these should not be allowed either due to quality.

5. How Should We Define "Quality"?
Should we define quality based on what they're advertising and judge them mostly on that, or should we lean toward mostly using our own quality standards?

I believe in doing a bit of both, but the way we lean with this affects what kind of listing we allow on here.

5. What Do You Feel We Should Do Differently Here?
We only have 3 services in our Trading Post right now. I know many of you want to submit as soon as you're able to, but whilst we still have only a few traders, now is the time to do things differently.

If there's anything you feel should be done to ensure we have quality listings here, I definitely want to hear it.

 

[IMGuy]

I really appreciate you want to build something based on community thoughts. I will share some insights soon. Thanks.

 

[Zwielicht]

I really appreciate you want to build something based on community thoughts. I will share some insights soon. Thanks.

Of course! We built the forum part of this with the community, and it's turned out really well. Doing the same with the Trading Post only makes sense.

I look forward to hearing your thoughts on this! Thank you!

 

[Champagne]

1) High Risk niches should not be allowed at this stage of the trading post. We can start to accept more services, once everything is set up and we can start creating measures to protect the customers from scams. At this point, I think we should not allow them. But I would not say that this applies to all account selling services. I am only talking about account selling services that offer accounts with credits, such as DigitalOcean, Amazon or Vultr. To me, there is no problem if someone wants to sell Amazon Free Tier EC2 Accounts. Especially with account selling services, it is really important to do thorough checks before approving it.

2) Yes, I think eBooks should be sold here. It is a big market after all, and yes, a lot of eBooks are trash. But there are some really good eBooks out there as well that have some real value in it, and it would be a shame if people couldn't have an opportunity to sell it here. Once again, it comes down to strict moderation and not allowing every crap to be sold on here, which is what we are going for here anyways.

3) No, reselling should not be allowed. It is, after all reselling, and you really do not have any control over the product. SMM Panels, in general, can be approved, but only after we have verified that the services belong to the user. Reseller services (outside of the SMM situation I have mentioned) should not be allowed.

4) I don't see any problems with this. Buyers should do their own research and see if the a service would fit them. Here, it comes down to moderation again and we need to be clear as to what the expectations to this service are. If we have someone that sells blog comments and he claims in his trading post that they can put you to the number 1 page, just with the blog comments, then we would have to disallow that. I am a little bit hesitant on this one. For now I would say it's allowed, but I would also be fine if people would not want it on the forum.

5) It is important that we do things differently than a lot of other marketplaces. That does not mean that we only accept high ticket items, but we need a proper testing of the service and we should only allow marketplace threads that can be effectively tested and we should not accept bullshit (which is why I am still hesitant to answer point 4). In short, we should prefer quality over quantity as this is what the customer would want as well.

 

[roydan]

1. I really think that instead of disallowing a type of service, we can raise the requirements for starting a sales thread.

2.Personally, I love ebooks, but instead of just checking for plagiarism, we can have members who are experienced in the field be the ones who reviews it, similarly to the new FRC for MP approvals initiative. This review should not be a yes/no but a deep and well written, not half assed

3. I think that at some point the other forum became very inconsistent with it. The rules say that you aren't allowed to resell a BHW service, but at some point is seems like the expectation were that every seller will be in charge of the entire process from start to finish, which I think it highly unrealistic.
I, for example, run campaigns, right? I don't make the banner because they'll probably look like Impulse's sig. I have a designer, is it reselling if a set of banners is a part of my initial package?
And what if a client buys another set, then is it reselling?

4. I say we should. If you want to buy forum comments, buy forum comments. OO can't take a stand against certain practices, as out dated as they may seem.

5. I think that some of the reviewed products should be made public. Articles, web design services, etc..
Some services are not really sharable, but having an experienced member from the community verifying the quality of the service can go a long way here as well (need to watch for conflicts if interest, though).

 

[Mr.Brilliant]

90% of smm panels really don't work we can allow them only with the condition that they should test and list only active services, if any dead service will be reported by the buyers we are going to stop the sales.

About low quality link building and blog commenting services, I guess I am the only one who is in favor of this. As this is the source of money making for many freelancers and it works good for T2, T3 links and hell out of spam seo like that of 2011 or something. But still these services works.


Please ignore : grammar and spellings

 

[Zwielicht]

1) High Risk niches should not be allowed at this stage of the trading post. We can start to accept more services, once everything is set up and we can start creating measures to protect the customers from scams. At this point, I think we should not allow them. But I would not say that this applies to all account selling services. I am only talking about account selling services that offer accounts with credits, such as DigitalOcean, Amazon or Vultr. To me, there is no problem if someone wants to sell Amazon Free Tier EC2 Accounts. Especially with account selling services, it is really important to do thorough checks before approving it.

2) Yes, I think eBooks should be sold here. It is a big market after all, and yes, a lot of eBooks are trash. But there are some really good eBooks out there as well that have some real value in it, and it would be a shame if people couldn't have an opportunity to sell it here. Once again, it comes down to strict moderation and not allowing every crap to be sold on here, which is what we are going for here anyways.

3) No, reselling should not be allowed. It is, after all reselling, and you really do not have any control over the product. SMM Panels, in general, can be approved, but only after we have verified that the services belong to the user. Reseller services (outside of the SMM situation I have mentioned) should not be allowed.

4) I don't see any problems with this. Buyers should do their own research and see if the a service would fit them. Here, it comes down to moderation again and we need to be clear as to what the expectations to this service are. If we have someone that sells blog comments and he claims in his trading post that they can put you to the number 1 page, just with the blog comments, then we would have to disallow that. I am a little bit hesitant on this one. For now I would say it's allowed, but I would also be fine if people would not want it on the forum.

5) It is important that we do things differently than a lot of other marketplaces. That does not mean that we only accept high ticket items, but we need a proper testing of the service and we should only allow marketplace threads that can be effectively tested and we should not accept bullshit (which is why I am still hesitant to answer point 4). In short, we should prefer quality over quantity as this is what the customer would want as well.

1. I really think that instead of disallowing a type of service, we can raise the requirements for starting a sales thread.

2.Personally, I love ebooks, but instead of just checking for plagiarism, we can have members who are experienced in the field be the ones who reviews it, similarly to the new FRC for MP approvals initiative. This review should not be a yes/no but a deep and well written, not half assed

3. I think that at some point the other forum became very inconsistent with it. The rules say that you aren't allowed to resell a BHW service, but at some point is seems like the expectation were that every seller will be in charge of the entire process from start to finish, which I think it highly unrealistic.
I, for example, run campaigns, right? I don't make the banner because they'll probably look like Impulse's sig. I have a designer, is it reselling if a set of banners is a part of my initial package?
And what if a client buys another set, then is it reselling?

4. I say we should. If you want to buy forum comments, buy forum comments. OO can't take a stand against certain practices, as out dated as they may seem.

5. I think that some of the reviewed products should be made public. Articles, web design services, etc..
Some services are not really sharable, but having an experienced member from the community verifying the quality of the service can go a long way here as well (need to watch for conflicts if interest, though).

It looks like both of you are mostly on the same page about these points, and what the two of you are saying makes a lot of sense.

In regards to question 4, you're absolutely right that we shouldn't take a stand against things ourselves. Thinking on it now, we have a more hands-off (but not unmoderated) approach to dealing with things around here, and that should also apply to our Trading Post by allowing buyers to determine what services they want to buy, and not us deciding for them. This is why I started this thread, as it helps put things into perspective.

Thank you @roydan and @Champagne for sharing your thoughts! @Impulse and I are just discussing this as well, but everything else you said makes a lot of sense.

90% of smm panels really don't work we can allow them only with the condition that they should test and list only active services, if any dead service will be reported by the buyers we are going to stop the sales.

About low quality link building and blog commenting services, I guess I am the only one who is in favor of this. As this is the source of money making for many freelancers and it works good for T2, T3 links and hell out of spam seo like that of 2011 or something. But still these services works.


Please ignore : grammar and spellings

Based on the responses so far and some other discussions I've had with members today, it seems like the real problem is with reseller panels specifically. I do remember reviewing a few panels where the seller owner the whole service, and those ones were really good. Basically, SMM panels aren't the issue, but reseller panels would be since those ones violate the rule on reselling.

What you're sayin about blog comments makes a lot of sense. Also based on the other two responses, it's up to the customer to know what they're looking for, and if you've had success with blog commenting services in Tier 2/3 links where I have not, that means there are likely others who have uses for these services as well. That right there is just one reason for us to not just prohibit services because we thought they had no use.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this, @Mr.Brilliant!

 

[roydan]

It looks like both of you are on the same page about these points, and what the two of you are makes a lot of sense.

I'd say that the term 'reselling' needs to be defined better (point 3), which is where I think @Champagne and I are not 100% aligned.

 

[Zwielicht]

I'd say that the term 'reselling' needs to be defined better (point 3), which is where I think @Champagne and I are not 100% aligned.

Mostly on the same page, I mean. I’ll put that in my last post.

Edit: We should define what reselling is to account for the scenario you provided. Good thinking.

 

[Champagne]

I'd say that the term 'reselling' needs to be defined better (point 3), which is where I think @Champagne and I are not 100% aligned.

Your example above is not reselling in my opinion. You are just outsourcing something that helps you deliver your product. What most SMM Panels are doing is selling someone else's service and claiming it as their own.

If you decide to outsource certain parts of your operation, you should ideally have to state that in your trading post. I wouldn't make it necessary, but just for transparency.

 

[Zwielicht]

Your example above is not reselling in my opinion. You are just outsourcing something that helps you deliver your product. What most SMM Panels are doing is selling someone else's service and claiming it as their own.

If you decide to outsource certain parts of your operation, you should ideally have to state that in your trading post. I wouldn't make it necessary, but just for transparency.

I think it's still good to define it in our Trading Post rules just so there's no confusion.

Also, I agree with how we'd handle someone outsourcing their work: we'd like for someone to disclose that, but that would be optional. I can also adjust the rules thread to mention that when I work on it again.

 

[t2van]

I think just set the vetting requirement standards higher and the approval review feedback message on the thread going live.

I get time is a factor and it does help to have canned replies stacked up to various threads but the biggest issue I had was approval threads where very generic. Anything I had purchased before (I think two ebooks) the review didn't match the quality of the product I received.

Sales threads reviewed by two mods incase of a split decision a 3rd party or founding member gets involved or however you want to do it.

Personally I think that will set things a little further apart from other places - it would also cut down on some of the dog shit services and products offered as well as the problems that go with it I think.

 

[Octavia]

1. High-Risk Services
I agree with disallowing certain high-risk services. It's important to protect the community from scams and disputes.

2. E-books
Allow the sale of e-books and materials (like guides, reports, templates), but not courses.

3. Reseller SMM Panels
Do not allow SMM panels, especially reseller panels. Too risky and inconsistent in quality.

4. Outdated Services
Do not allow outdated services. If a service is known to have little to no value today (like low-quality blog comments), it shouldn't be allowed.

5. Defining "Quality"
When users complain about a service, it should trigger a review process.

• If the seller is verified and complaints are credible, investigate seriously.
• If the complaints come from random/unverified users, check if it’s real feedback or just brigading (targeted attacks by groups).

6. Improvements
Gotta think about that.

 

[MR.Spuf]

2. I do want ebooks. Some are trash indeed, rehashed etc, but if there is a sold rating in place, they will be ruled out pretty fast. But it has to be built somehow that we avoid situations were people cam send negative reviews to competition.

Sales threads reviewed by two mods incase of a split decision a 3rd party or founding member gets involved or however you want to do it.

3. I agree to this. More in depth review of the service. I don't have an SMM panel, but I wamt to open a very niched one in the future, with just 2 services but I am working with a few and I am supplying them and I know for a fact that some.of them.are having their own services + they resell too, they have a mix sort of so it's hard to spot. Let's say that yow review it, it's good then later they add other reselled services. It comes down to a based rating system with a person that can verify reviews based on transactions.

 

[Zwielicht]

I'll comment on the recent posts once I get a chance, but you can see what level of quality we're going for in terms of reviews by taking a look at the two threads we've already approved as part of the beta test.

The review process used during the beta test is based on the Premium Review process I briefly trialed on the other forum. I wasn't able to use it for more than one service because it was time-consuming, but I'm making it the standard for OO. In other words, there won't be generic reviews.

Anyway, here are the example reviews:

• https://officeoutlaw.com/threads/to...ch-that-pass-ai-detection-tests.360/post-7128
• https://officeoutlaw.com/threads/fe...al-reports-register-for-a-bonus.425/post-6966

Information About This AI-Generated Content Writing Listing
AI-generated content writing services make use of artificial intelligence tools to produce written material for articles, descriptions, and anywhere else content is used.

Often times, these services are offered by prompt engineers: people who specialise in expertly crafting specific queries for AI models to interpret.

Initial Consultation
After I reached out to @LuxRiches about their listing submission, I immediately noted that he was very professional in terms of conduct. The way his service is tailored, all a customer really needs to send this trader to get started is their niche. A customer can optionally send them their own keywords, although in order to properly vet this service, I felt it best to not send my own keywords in order to fully test this trader's keyword research capabilities.

In my case, I sent him an exotic pets niche and requested that they send me a couple handful of articles since the only difference between their packages was the numbers of articles you receive. The trader asked me a question about the niche with an example keyword to ensure that the articles were what I was looking for. I very much appreciated this effort as it showed me that the trader wanted to ensure the content met my expectations.

Service Delivery
When it came time for the articles to be delivered, I was very happy to see that the keywords and their data were also delivered in the report. This was an unstated expectation of mine that I was glad they met.

Moving on to the report, I first checked the keyword report I was sent by looking over the keywords in the same tool the seller used to ensure that the data was accurate to what was in the report. I was pleased to see that the data was an exact match.

As for the articles themselves, I immediately noted that the keywords were featured in the titles of the articles. Spelling and grammar were spot-on, as can be expected with AI-articles. The articles all had similar formatting, although I feel a reader would probably appreciate this consistency if they saw these articles on a website. Finally, as advertised, the articles did pass ZeroGPT's AI detection.

My only issues actually stemmed from the niche I chose; I've done work in this niche in the past, so I'm aware that articles in the exotic pet niche are usually written by people who are more personal in the articles about the exotic pet they're talking about. Since these articles were AI-assisted, that personal type of writing people usually do when writing about exotic pets was not present. However, I would still use these articles on a site in the niche as I do not believe most readers would notice them. However, my only recommendation based on this is for anyone interested in this service to simply be aware of any expectations readers in their niche might have.

Final Thoughts
Throughout the review, @LuxRiches was prompt in their responses, professional, and very easy to work with. The service was delivered as advertised and even exceeded my expectations in some places, notably with the delivery of the keyword report.

Disclaimer: Listings in The Trading Post here on Office Outlaw are vetted to the best of our knowledge and abilities. However, should any issues occur with your transaction or you receive something that's not as advertised, please work it out with the trader first. In the event that you cannot resolve it with the trader, you may submit a complaint to The Tribunal.

Information About This Miscellaneous Listing
Miscellaneous Listings are simply listings that don't fit in any other category present here on Office Outlaw. These miscellaneous services range from unique services and rare digital goods to odd jobs that defy standard classification.

In this case, this is a General Public License (GPL) directory service; which has downloadable themes, extensions, and more.

As a side note, another staff member, @Champagne, assisted me with reviewing this service.

Initial Consultation
I reached out to @Festinger Vault about his listing submission, I asked him to send me any questions he would normally send a customer who was interested in his service, but wasn't sure about which plan to select.

He then sent me over a handful of questions pertaining to what I might be looking for, my experience with GPL services, and more. I answered these questions as if I were a customer, and @Festinger Vault got back to me not only with a recommendation for which plan would be best for me, but also his reasoning why. Something I really liked about his reasoning is that is wasn't generic; it was in direct relation to the answers I provided him and accounted for my specific preferences..

Service Delivery
For the sake of the review, @Festinger Vault set up an account for me based on the plan that best fit my needs.

Right off the bat, the variety of plugins, themes, and templates across so many niches was vast and impressive. In the event that you cannot find what you're looking for, I noticed that there was a feature to request new items.

I found the search feature on the site to be quite intuitive in the sense that it wasn't just searching for the exact keyword you put in. This means that if you want to search for "WP security", it prioritises the exact keyword, but also shows results featuring both keywords; so you can search generally or for a specific kind of plugin.

After I found a few items to try downloading, I noticed that each item had detailed information, comments about the item, a changelog, and of course a download button. The downloads are as easy as you can imagine and start after you click the "Download" button and select a plan. It was fast for me to download these items, but your mileage may vary depending on your internet download speed.

Finally, I tested the plugins and themes on my own site. They installed and activated without any issues, and they were exactly as described.

Final Thoughts
I've experienced @Festinger Vault's service in the past, so I already had some familiarity with it. I can say that this was another positive experience I had with both him and his service. I appreciated that any questions or issues I had were promptly addressed, and this level of support with the vast number of items and features on the site are what I feel makes this service unique.

Disclaimer: Listings in The Trading Post here on Office Outlaw are vetted to the best of our knowledge and abilities. However, should any issues occur with your transaction or you receive something that's not as advertised, please work it out with the trader first. In the event that you cannot resolve it with the trader, you may submit a complaint to The Tribunal.