Let's Talk About The Negativity On OO

[Zwielicht]

I know this took a long time for to us address. To be honest, none of the staff members were sure how to bring this up in a way that didn't make anyone feel blamed.

The negativity occurring on here isn't due to any one person in particular. I believe all of us have been guilty of this at one point or another, including myself. However, it has now gotten to the point where even I have started posting less on here because of how rampant it's become.

I've been struggling to know what to do or what to say on the matter, so I'll just say this: we need to come together as a community and stop attacking each other. Not just the members on this forum, but across the entire internet marketing community and on other forums. I know some of you feel wronged by each other, and I don't think anyone is wrong for feeling this way. It's one thing to joke or vent occasionally a few times, but it's another thing to drown in this negativity that results in complaints and bickering.

I've been thinking over what both the members and the moderators can do to help everyone, and @Impulse and I have come up with the following:

What The Moderation Team Can Do
It's become increasingly clear that we need to step in more often when there's an issue or an argument is getting out of control.

I've been in many communities online, and I know first-hand how heavy-handed approaches to moderation can put someone off posting. I've managed multiple communities in different industries, and I found that a more lax approach to moderation worked well in those communities. It's why I thought it would work here. However, not every community is the same, and I want to do what works best for this forum.

I still believe in taking a more lax approach to moderation, but I do think this community needs more guidance in general. It's why I've been talking with the moderators on how to step in more often without coming across as over-bearing. We will make more of an effort to step in with arguments on the forum and advise members when it looks like it's getting too heated.

What You Can Do As Members
I mentioned that I'm aware that some of you are frustrated with each other or feel wronged by other members. The only advice I can give on this is to try to be aware of when you're spiraling on this matter. It's one thing to make a joke, it's another thing to take that joke too far. It's one thing to report a member for a rule violation, it's another to repeatedly report someone over something more personal that doesn't actually violate the rules. If someone's posts are bothering you, you can use the ignore feature or create a feedback thread if you think there is a gap in our rules that could be abused and make the forum unpleasant for people. We will do our best to try and reach the best conclusion we can.

Aside from that, keep posting and sharing thoughts, ideas, or anything you find interesting online. Really, creating new discussion threads whenever you feel like it will go a long way toward making the forum feel more welcoming, particularly to new members.

The staff have spent so much time and effort building this community up because all of us believe it's a worthwhile endeavour and that all of you are worth that effort. I know if we work together on this, we can make OO a fun and helpful place to be.

If anyone has any thoughts or opinions they'd like to share on this matter, or if there's any feedback anyone would like to give, then please feel free to post in this thread.

 

[shattered world]

Yeah this is something I've been seeing myself.

I've been using the ignore button but on a temporary basis. You know sometimes you find someone annoying but I don't think it's right to ignore them permanently just temporarily. You just need a break some people sometimes ya know?

Mods stepping in more often wouldn't hurt. Some threads can seem like they get out of control or the arguments go on too long.

 

[UnusualSubstance]

Indeed let's make this place a wholesome community.

 

[Champagne]

I agree with everything you said. We do not gain anything from attacking each other, and I’ve also been holding back on warnings and removing posts. However, it has reached a point where more and more threads are frequently being derailed by attacks on other members. While it may be funny to some, it certainly is not funny to everyone, and it also creates a bad impression of the forum overall, especially for new members.

 

[Spicy Nug]

I'm glad to see this post and the staff members bringing this up.

I take breaks from OO and other sites often just because I don't live online but it is hard to come back and see people just idk complaining all the time.

I get worked up IRL especially after that crazy person on Facebook contacted my job recently so I don't want to come on forums and get worked up there too.

 

[t2van]

Id say mods / admin have very much been hidden away since the last recent explosion.

It's shown, I mean I can't be the only one that's noticed it. Hiding doesn't fix anything.

I've always said there should be a clear line drawn under topics and moderation from day one and because it's treated as a small community that exception has always been waved due to forum numbers. But then it causes exactly these same issues being brought up here.

It's fine to be relaxed but keep within the rules. Mods need to do the job. End of.

I've reported posts for derailing and been told it's OK as topics gone back on track. I guess you don't want to be policing it 24/7 but we gone from a Wild West of ferret, conspiracy, inconsistent posting and just total ramblings in a bunch of threads. That's simply not warranted.

I don't think I attack anyone. I think people know if I got a gripe with someone. I'll certainly poke fun at someone.

I've always said I'm blunt.

I think there are members who are immature and can't handle criticism or feedback at all.

It does make me think how the heck they deal in business or why I would purchase anyones service here based on the way they deal with the slightest remark made against them. Doesn't look great.

I'm not sure how you handle that but again moderation helps, I think it's clear when someone offers advice or replies to feedback as again it's a forum and then the person receiving that takes it as a personal flame war. A mod or admin should have some common sense to see that's not the case and step in straight away.

There's been plenty of digs directed towards my self about my wealth, drinking, my goals and ambitions those have been shared with me by various members of topics I just miss, frankly I can't be arsed I do find myself typing out a reply but what's the point. It's easier to just not post.

Yes there will always be personalities and egos. You're going to get that anyway just the same as you will always get people who are envious and jealous. It's life that's being a human.


The posting and constant digs at the other place needs to stop. I understand people will find their way here but it's everywhere and in most threads it's just boring.


To be perfectly honest. I'm not a fan of some of the recent changes either. Moving out categories for tags. I don't post much because I got no idea what prefix or tag is hidden under what category. I think ditching some of them things is a mistake from a community and seo perspective.

There's been a little flip flopping in what the community votes and then what gets undone also. Which I think has caused some a divide also.

I very much feel the forum seems to be in two camp at the moment. How you fix that I don't know. I've stopped posting as much to see if it helps tho!

I do genuinely try to help everyone when they ask for advice, feedback or try to trouble shoot something. It might not be what you want to hear but it's advice at the end of the day, sometimes questions need to be asked to understand the situation that's not a dig that's on you. If you don't want the help don't ask.

 

[Dopious]

I joined this forum for one reason a year ago, and that reason was you Z, you and Heiko was the moderators I respected on the other forum you were both human, hard ass and fair with no backstabbing intentions as far as my knowledge are. But I really have been missing your activity as an owner here in the forum, please don`t hide behind a rock as Damien do.

 

[Aristocratic]

Well said Z

Im not very active in the comments or threads, but I do log in every day and read. And youre right , the negativity has been so damn high lately.

Some members should let the other forum badstories and situations go and move on....
Some others can just use the ignore button more often....

 

[Rem]

I am innocent

 

[RiskyStuff]

Again topic about me.

Omg, I had too much salience in my mind and everything seemed too important. I felt like posting every thought. Not the first time in my life.

At least I know why I'm triggering ppl. And I know how to stop it.

 

[Octavia]

Again topic about me.

Omg, I had too much salience in my mind and everything seemed too important. I felt like posting every thought. Not the first time in my life.

At least I know why I'm triggering ppl. And I know how to stop it.

Such an Outlaw.
--

Agree with @Dopious

 

[Zwielicht]

Yeah this is something I've been seeing myself.

I've been using the ignore button but on a temporary basis. You know sometimes you find someone annoying but I don't think it's right to ignore them permanently just temporarily. You just need a break some people sometimes ya know?

Mods stepping in more often wouldn't hurt. Some threads can seem like they get out of control or the arguments go on too long.

I like the idea of using the ignore button on a temporary basis.

Well, I can’t do this myself since I have to moderate the forum, but I like the idea for other members.

I'm glad to see this post and the staff members bringing this up.

I take breaks from OO and other sites often just because I don't live online but it is hard to come back and see people just idk complaining all the time.

I get worked up IRL especially after that crazy person on Facebook contacted my job recently so I don't want to come on forums and get worked up there too.

Taking breaks from the internet in general is a good step.

Some people say it’s important to “touch grass” every now and then to the point where it’s become an insult, but I personally find that it’s better for me to get off the internet from time to time to remind myself that there’s more to this world than what’s happening online.

I’ll respond to the other posts in a bit. I just need to do it in spurts.

 

[BlueSteel]

Well said Z

Im not very active in the comments or threads, but I do log in every day and read. And youre right , the negativity has been so damn high lately.

Some members should let the other forum badstories and situations go and move on....
Some others can just use the ignore button more often....

I'm not very familiar with the other forum but I have felt burned by other sites before.

I just move on from those sites and never visit them again.

 

[Zwielicht]

Id say mods / admin have very much been hidden away since the last recent explosion.

It's shown, I mean I can't be the only one that's noticed it. Hiding doesn't fix anything.

I've always said there should be a clear line drawn under topics and moderation from day one and because it's treated as a small community that exception has always been waved due to forum numbers. But then it causes exactly these same issues being brought up here.

It's fine to be relaxed but keep within the rules. Mods need to do the job. End of.

I've reported posts for derailing and been told it's OK as topics gone back on track. I guess you don't want to be policing it 24/7 but we gone from a Wild West of ferret, conspiracy, inconsistent posting and just total ramblings in a bunch of threads. That's simply not warranted.

I don't think I attack anyone. I think people know if I got a gripe with someone. I'll certainly poke fun at someone.

I've always said I'm blunt.

I think there are members who are immature and can't handle criticism or feedback at all.

It does make me think how the heck they deal in business or why I would purchase anyones service here based on the way they deal with the slightest remark made against them. Doesn't look great.

I'm not sure how you handle that but again moderation helps, I think it's clear when someone offers advice or replies to feedback as again it's a forum and then the person receiving that takes it as a personal flame war. A mod or admin should have some common sense to see that's not the case and step in straight away.

There's been plenty of digs directed towards my self about my wealth, drinking, my goals and ambitions those have been shared with me by various members of topics I just miss, frankly I can't be arsed I do find myself typing out a reply but what's the point. It's easier to just not post.

Yes there will always be personalities and egos. You're going to get that anyway just the same as you will always get people who are envious and jealous. It's life that's being a human.


The posting and constant digs at the other place needs to stop. I understand people will find their way here but it's everywhere and in most threads it's just boring.


To be perfectly honest. I'm not a fan of some of the recent changes either. Moving out categories for tags. I don't post much because I got no idea what prefix or tag is hidden under what category. I think ditching some of them things is a mistake from a community and seo perspective.

There's been a little flip flopping in what the community votes and then what gets undone also. Which I think has caused some a divide also.

I very much feel the forum seems to be in two camp at the moment. How you fix that I don't know. I've stopped posting as much to see if it helps tho!

I do genuinely try to help everyone when they ask for advice, feedback or try to trouble shoot something. It might not be what you want to hear but it's advice at the end of the day, sometimes questions need to be asked to understand the situation that's not a dig that's on you. If you don't want the help don't ask.

Yeah, it's why I mentioned that it's clear both moderators and members became overwhelmed with the negativity.

It's not hiding as I can see all of us were still logging in, but when I personally get overwhelmed with something, it was hard not to feel paralysed about what to do. Previously, if I found that if I posted something, I felt like I was getting attacked. Then if I didn't post anything, I was getting attacked for not doing enough. You know, "Your damned if you do, you're damned if you don't".

It's not that anyone was attacking me per se, but rather it's the way things are said that I can find off-putting. But that goes the other way around as well: the staff clearly have to say something, but we have to say the right thing.

I agree that there are always personalities and egos in communities and that the constant digs about the other forum need to stop. I know I wasn't helping with that last year, but I realised that and just found it's better to stay matter-of-fact about my posts instead of getting worked up because I feel wronged.

I know what you mean about the community votes. I try not to undo anything, but something else I found that wasn't helping was that I was adding in too many updates at once. It started making the forum feel unstable, and both @roydan and @Octavia have told me at one point or another that it's better to give things time to settle before making any more changes. It's why I've slowed down with doing updates. After all, many of you have already said that the forum side of things is already pretty good and doesn't actually need anything.

You can always post as much or as little as you like here. I did notice you posting less, but it's not a bad thing to do what's best for you.

 

[Zwielicht]

I joined this forum for one reason a year ago, and that reason was you Z, you and Heiko was the moderators I respected on the other forum you were both human, hard ass and fair with no backstabbing intentions as far as my knowledge are. But I really have been missing your activity as an owner here in the forum, please don`t hide behind a rock as Damien do.

I know that's the reason you joined and I really appreciate that.

I'll make sure to post more here again. I really just needed some time to figure out how best to approach what's been going on in the community and on OO.

Well said Z

Im not very active in the comments or threads, but I do log in every day and read. And youre right , the negativity has been so damn high lately.

Some members should let the other forum badstories and situations go and move on....
Some others can just use the ignore button more often....

I see you come on every now and then, and I think it's always to see your posting here.

I know why they struggle to move on: it's that feeling that you've been wronged and there's just no justice. I felt like that about a lot of people and places throughout my life. I think for anyone who feels like they want to move but can't because of this, what helps me is knowing that everyone who wronged me did so out of their own misery, and that I can't let them drag me down with them.

What these other people do does catch up with them eventually. I mean, you can only screw over so many people before you screw over the wrong person, after all.

Again topic about me.

Omg, I had too much salience in my mind and everything seemed too important. I felt like posting every thought. Not the first time in my life.

At least I know why I'm triggering ppl. And I know how to stop it.

The topic is about everybody, not any one member in particular.

I know that feeling of wanting to post every thought. I don't know if you remember my posts from the other forum, but even I did, especially in the early years.

Sometimes, it's just over-excitement, but just to address what's been bothering you, you mentioned that you had a bad reaction to some of your meds not too long ago and some members were genuinely concerned. It's why your Sapphire got refunded and we decided to give you a week free; we didn't want to feel like you were being taken advantage of when you were struggling, and the free week was just to show you that as well.

For the record, you've seemed a lot better recently, which is good to see.

 

[Impulse]

Posting on forums when you are an admin or mod has an extra layer of complexity to it, which is why you’ll often see mods taking a step back from posting. They’re often still moderating and watching the forum, but actually posting when you have a position of authority can be more political than you want it to be.

A long time ago, I used to post more freely on the other forum as a moderator because I liked talking to the community and voicing my opinions. But I did learn over time how other members perceived it. I found that my personal opinions started getting attributed to the forum in general (as if it were some kind of official stance of the forum) and if members didn’t like my opinions or views, they’d take issue with the forum itself.

It didn’t help that I was also more open about being female at the time, which invited more vitriol towards my opinions. It could range from being told I was “too emotional” to be a moderator up to being called a ‘whore mod’ for giving someone a warning when they broke the rules. It did ultimately lead to me being a lot more hesitant to speak freely on the forum.

When you have to carefully think about everything you post and how it could be interpreted, it makes it that much harder to post anything. I don’t know if this is how other mods feel about this, but it’s definitely the case for me.

Not to put too fine of a point on it, but my own thoughts and beliefs are quite different to a lot of members on here, and I’m not sure how much others would appreciate seeing what my opinions really are. I don’t want to create any unease on here, which is why I typically keep to myself.

I feel like this was important for me to address as I think I’m probably the one who posts the least out of everyone on the moderation team. I don’t generally feel that I can be open and honest on the forum, but I’d at least like to be open and honest about this.

 

[Dopious]

Posting on forums when you are an admin or mod has an extra layer of complexity to it, which is why you’ll often see mods taking a step back from posting. They’re often still moderating and watching the forum, but actually posting when you have a position of authority can be more political than you want it to be.

So post in threads that make you feel good then. As owner of this forum the worst kind of misstake you can do is to stick your head into the sand like Damien does, it makes a lot of us feel that you only want the long run business it can give you and to me it feels like you don`t care about us as members. A joke in the weekend thread or a tip in a regular thread goes a looooooong way weekly.

 

[SilverClouds]

Again topic about me.

Omg, I had too much salience in my mind and everything seemed too important. I felt like posting every thought. Not the first time in my life.

At least I know why I'm triggering ppl. And I know how to stop it.

No bro, there's way more nutjobs on the forum than just you.

It didn’t help that I was also more open about being female at the time, which invited more vitriol towards my opinions. It could range from being told I was “too emotional” to be a moderator up to being called a ‘whore mod’ for giving someone a warning when they broke the rules. It did ultimately lead to me being a lot more hesitant to speak freely on the forum.

Men are ridiculous... Then they wonder why some women go full blown 4b radical feminism lol. Yeah, I get that 'it's not all men' but like... 99% of them?? Yes, I understand that there's men here too in admin/mod roles and you all don't ban me the fuck out the face of the Earth, while you could, if you wanted to, but you let me voice my opinions.

Not to put too fine of a point on it, but my own thoughts and beliefs are quite different to a lot of members on here, and I’m not sure how much others would appreciate seeing what my opinions really are. I don’t want to create any unease on here, which is why I typically keep to myself.

Yeah. I think that's the... Eh. I'm thinking there might be more interesting, worthwhile people hiding around, but they don't speak, but of course the worst scum of the earth will always be very loud, constantly babbling and even offended that someone doesn't want to listen. People sooo don't want to listen to this crap that they mass self ban. Literally my whole point... I don't want worthless people in my network, would prefer someone more interesting. Some have very huge egos, disproportionate to their actual value - easy to spot these because often they complain why they don't get all the attention they want.

 

[Impulse]

So post in threads that make you feel good then. As owner of this forum the worst kind of misstake you can do is to stick your head into the sand like Damien does, it makes a lot of us feel that you only want the long run business it can give you and to me it feels like you don`t care about us as members. A joke in the weekend thread or a tip in a regular thread goes a looooooong way weekly.

I appreciate where you are coming from, but even threads that are positive or friendly can be misinterpreted. There's no such thing as a completely 'safe' way to post.

There is a hard balance to strike, and it can be tough if being yourself on the forum could potentially mean that it impacts the forum negatively.

That said, I'm more inclined at this point to just speak my mind even if there is a little blowback.

Men are ridiculous... Then they wonder why some women go full blown 4b radical feminism lol. Yeah, I get that 'it's not all men' but like... 99% of them?? Yes, I understand that there's men here too in admin/mod roles and you all don't ban me the fuck out the face of the Earth, while you could, if you wanted to, but you let me voice my opinions.

Yeah, it's hard not to generalise when you deal with a lot of bullshit. I am always trying to be understanding as much as I can, but it's hard not to default to that kind of thinking. I call it 'reactionary discrimination' in my head - it's not the way I want to think but sometimes I can feel like I want to lash out and make others feel the way I've been made to feel.

 

[demonic_man]

i have no complaint for now