Black Hat SEO Question to those who run their SEO/link-selling businesses

[INCC]

This is a question for those who run their own agency sites outside of forums, where dealing with bad actors is more complicated.

How are you dealing with chargebacks?

I am talking about clients who come and buy either a lot of links or links that are generally expensive for you to source, and then get a chargeback via PayPal months after.

Some time ago, I was checking out TheHOTH's Trustpilot page, and I saw people complaining about bad links (not surprised by that tbh) and many people said that they had done chargebacks after a refusal of a refund.

It is a digital product, and it leaves the door open for a massive amount of fraudulent refund requests, even if you provide a decent service.

PS: Asking cuz I am building out my own link selling business.

 

[Skyrocket]

Never got this.

 

[INCC]

Never got this.

Never got a single chargeback?

You must be lucky

 

[indianmojojojo]

so far I just got one in over 6 fig sales (which was done by a 16 yo kid who panicked). The best way around is to have an IM support line via WhatsApp, Telegram, Teams etc

You can also iron out most issues without getting to a dispute. Plus 90% of the times the ones that dispute are the ones that buy very very low volume. Premium ones usually dont have charge backs

 

[INCC]

Plus 90% of the times the ones that dispute are the ones that buy very very low volume. Premium ones usually dont have charge backs

That's a good point.

For reference, I have never gotten a single chargeback for Trustpilot reviews, as my minimum order is $250, and I think that helps to keep them at bay.

 

[indianmojojojo]

That's a good point.

For reference, I have never gotten a single chargeback for Trustpilot reviews, as my minimum order is $250, and I think that helps to keep them at bay.

usually reputation management people dont charge back as one can switch the 5s into 1s
With other SEO services there is a minor risk, which will again be based on your price point and the LP approach

 

[Aristocratic]

For larger clients, I usually require them to sign a physical contract (not digital). They print, sign, and send it back. This helps a lot when dealing with chargebacks claiming the card was “hacked” or unauthorized. It’s added protection and shows intent.


I also try to "push" big spenders toward paying via wire transfer. There’s no way to reverse a wire like you can with PayPal or credit cards, which reduces the risk significantly. Wiring funds is a standard practice for larger businesses and most of them are OK doing it.


And yes, even clients spending $5k+/month can initiate chargebacks. Sometimes their business hits a rough patch (not because of the links and services we sell), and they look for ways to claw some money back. Unfortunately, it's part of the game when you're selling digital services.

 

[INCC]

I also try to "push" big spenders toward paying via wire transfer. There’s no way to reverse a wire like you can with PayPal or credit cards, which reduces the risk significantly. Wiring funds is a standard practice for larger businesses and most of them are OK doing it.

I saw on the other forum that you can now do chargebacks on Wise and Revolut wire too.

So it definitely needs to be a legit local/national bank.. that's the only wire they can't dispute.

 

[Aristocratic]

I saw on the other forum that you can now do chargebacks on Wise and Revolut wire too.

So it definitely needs to be a legit local/national bank.. that's the only wire they can't dispute.

Never had a dispute on WISE tbh. (i havent used it for almost a year since i got Chase bank so things might have changed)

I also used to withdraw all money from WISE and never leave em there.

 

[t2van]

We get disputes in work id say 1 every 6 months. It dont matter how good our damage control is you always get that "type" of customer. Its ecommerce for us it's be expected, the added fees now companies tag on feels like a piss take or a complaint tax but thats another argument.

I think when it comes to links or whatever you just need to adjust prices.

As previously mentioned if your price point is low enough you always get that type who expect to rank in a day after buying no matter what you type or explain online the fact is no one reads anything, they are ignorant and arrogant and think they know best so you get the fall out.

That combined with banks constantly pushing the fraud and charge back angle its tough. I think the only way to avoid it is to price your self out of that customer type spending profile or offer a payment service they cant dispute..

 

[SirTop]

I don’t think anyone fully avoids running into a bad client at some point. One common issue I’ve seen with clients who do chargebacks is that they don’t really understand what to expect from the links they’re buying or how long it takes to see results. If you’re working with someone who knows SEO and is just outsourcing, things usually go smoother.

The tricky ones are the business owners doing it all themselves without much background. They often expect fast results and get frustrated when it doesn’t work that way.

That’s why it helps to explain things properly from the start so they have a clearer picture. And if you already had that conversation and they still go ahead with a chargeback for no real reason, at least you have your chat history to support your case.

 

[back2form]

I've experienced charge back with couple clients, who doesn't understand the time frame for guest posts..

Example ; $6000 Client who asked for refund ..

Here's how I resolved.

Your revised terms are not acceptable for the following reasons:

#1) Not all links you promised to provide have been provided. A review of the current file illustrates that there are links that have yet to be posted in order to meet our agreed upon total. Although you have made progress, it has not been within the timeframes as you previously stated (24-48 hrs).

QUOTE FROM SKYPE:
[9/18/14, 1:32:41 AM] T***: Out of 145 URL’s in the spreadsheet, 3 duplicates found out of 142 URLs, 123 of them are still Active, Out of 123 Active URL’s, 111 have links on them, So I only have 111 out of 500 Links done to date.

[9/18/14, 1:34:06 AM] Bart Panessa: 100 more posts has been about to complete, whic will be updated to the sheet within 24 - 48 hours..


#2) We had a firm agreement on a date and amount of payment. Our company is relying on that payment to be made, in full. The issue you raise of banking half years is not my concern. If you cannot pay the full amount by the payment date, then you must pay the full amount prior to the payment due date. Any late payment will be considered a violation of our written agreement. We have only received 52% of the links total.

QUOTE FROM EMAIL:
Hi T**
As we agreed on Skype, I would like to settle this issue with 40% refund. I have discussed with my partner, will settle the payment on 29th of this month.

So, you have 2 options:

1) Pay the full amount of $6,200 as agreed and post all of the links at the time of or prior to the repayment date.
2) Pay me 68% ($$$$) and post no more links and we will give you a new payment due date of October 10th.

We are awaiting your response. Spreadsheet is attached with data analysis.

We ended such clients with satisfaction..

First, we try to arrange funds and pay you fully on the repayment date that is 29th of september.

We have been updating links in the spreadsheet as soon as the blogger delivers the LIVE links. As we spoke in Skype, I will be delivering 52% of links which will be around 210 links.

As we agreed, we have updated around 100 links on the spreadsheet. The links which are inactive will be replaced shortly.

[We thought of informing you about the half yearly banking dates as we felt that it is a bit difficult to arrange funds within the time frame].

Since you're not comfortable in expanding the timeframe, we will be settling the total payment of $$$$ on or before 29th of September.

Hope everything will be fine now.

I've few more.. (like 5 fig, 6 fig.) Have to search old history .. if needed I can present it as well..

We try to make such unhappy clients to happy clients by giving partial refund or as per their request..

Not all the clients turns bad,
In very few cases,

How we responds to such clients is important in this SEO / Link selling Business..

 

[SilverClouds]

This is a question for those who run their own agency sites outside of forums, where dealing with bad actors is more complicated.

How are you dealing with chargebacks?

I am talking about clients who come and buy either a lot of links or links that are generally expensive for you to source, and then get a chargeback via PayPal months after.

Some time ago, I was checking out TheHOTH's Trustpilot page, and I saw people complaining about bad links (not surprised by that tbh) and many people said that they had done chargebacks after a refusal of a refund.

It is a digital product, and it leaves the door open for a massive amount of fraudulent refund requests, even if you provide a decent service.

PS: Asking cuz I am building out my own link selling business.

I only accept bank transfers for that reason. I'll look into that for accepting cards later, never tried, but it says no chargebacks sssoooo... https://officeoutlaw.com/threads/gu...ustomer-pays-with-credit-card.826/#post-10676

 

[t0mmy]

Don’t use PayPal? Bank transfers for clients buying anything over $1k imo

 

[Furious Man]

To reduce chargeback risk, avoid PayPal for large orders, use clear refund terms, document all work, and consider Stripe or crypto.

 

[MisterF]

We only accept Bank transfers, unless it's a small amount / small client.

We got his by an asswipe in the US for a $16k chargeback several years back, this was for 3 months of service as he said his card had been hacked.

We sent in evidence of all the communications, emails, Skype messages etc etc.

The first one was rejected so we lost the first invoice, which was for $3k, but we won the other cases.


We had another clown from BHW who did 2 charge backs, which we won the cases for and blocked him through SPP from reordering. He basically deposited funds on BHW, then tried to claim his payment was hacked.


Fucking with your SEO guy can be really bad though. I had a guy come to us years back, as he was wanting to change agency. He was looking at spending $10k a month at least, so I grabbed a coffee and spent a couple of hours looking over his site.

Seems he had chargeback against the company he used, and from that day forward he had a lot of crap thrown at his site, all porn anchors etc etc. His brand name was ranking for his own site obviously, but several other top 10 sites for his brand name were porn sites.

I did ask him who the previous agency was, I then reached out to them and ended up getting the low down as to what happened. basically they had trebled his traffic etc and he decided he wanted to get a 50% reduction on his fees but keep the same package. They said no, he said bye and fuck you so charged back.
They then obviously said bye and fuck your site.

I declined him as a client.

 

[SEO FOX]

PayPal is bad sometimes. Even though you provide all evidence. They return the money to Buyers, when a case is Opened. So, To Avoid Chargeback, Use Alternative like Stripe, Binance and Bank Payments.

Some People are doing this. In IM, Trustability is the Word as No once see Faces.

 

[janist]

We sold a metric ton of links over the years, ranging from lower scale ~$100 to $4000+ editorial placements and tbh chargebacks are very rare. At least for us. Which is kinda surprising, as SEO is inherently sketchy.

We may have been lucky, but we also do heavy pre-screening of clients that want to spend $1k+ per link. You instantly know someone is trying to scam you if they want to weasle out of wire/direct bank transfers saying they only can do paypal -> then you propose Escrow (which accepts PP) and does NOT offer chargebacks and that's oddly a no-go.. oh really? Instant drop and block from us.

For anything else Stripe and Paypal are just fine. Stripe fraud protection is incredible and saves us from tons of illicit orders every month. Subsequently we had less than 0.5% of all orders do a chargeback over 13 years and that includes chargebacks where clients forgot to cancel a sub and instead of asking for a refund they opened a dispute (fk them).

For those that are clearly bullshit "oh no, my card was hacked" : They are fairly easy to win by providing very detailed documentation, transacational emails, proper invoices (the most important aspect I think, at least for Stripe/Paypal) and customer data points (legally captured under GDPR). That along with Stripe's/Paypal's internal data is usually sufficient to revert any claims that are clearly blatant bullshit.

So my advice: just risk it.

 

[INCC]

We sent in evidence of all the communications, emails, Skype messages etc etc.

The first one was rejected so we lost the first invoice, which was for $3k, but we won the other cases.

I just got ripped off myself with buying links but I pay directly to webmasters.

I paid for a link that got removed a month later and I lost the Paypal dispute despite the evidence being clearly on my side. I sent SEMrush photos when links were added and when they were removed (last seen) but they didn't care.

After that I told the seller I am going to nuke their site if they don't return the money or link... the link was returned.

What a fucking weasel. It was 1883 Magazine if anyone cares.